Dear All This again is not to be publicised, but in June 2007 an experienced cetacean observer, who previously fished porbeagles, saw a large (2½ to 3 metre) shark in Biscay which he thought was probably a white. I spoke to journalists from Times and Daily Star (but not the Daily Mail) about the Suffolk porpoise http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=506747&in_page_id=1770 and gave my opinion that the cause of death was impossible to determine and that its injuries were largely post-mortem, due to physical damage and scavenging. Regards, Doug Douglas Herdson National Marine Aquarium Plymouth, PL4 0LF, UK Telephone: (+44)01752 275216/01752 600301 Fax: (+44)01752 275217 Email: Douglas.Herdson@national-aquarium.co.uk To be part of a world passionate about our Oceans. -----Original Message----- From: Ian Fergusson [mailto:ian.fergusson@bbc.co.uk] Sent: 11 January 2008 09:34 To: Declan Quigley; Richard Lord; info@christaylorphoto.co.uk Cc: Douglas Herdson; Andy Horton; Jean Claude QUERO; Alessandro De Maddalena; cduffy@doc.govt.nz; lcompagno@iziko.org.za; sarahfowler@naturebureau.co.uk Subject: RE: [Elasmo-l] chunk taken out of seal in North Sea, UK Hi Declan Potentially, yes. It's a real shame the carcass wasn't recovered by CEFAS or another agency, so that a proper lab-based examination could have been undertaken, including radiography. Whilst the injury is superficially similar to those seen in cases of white shark bites to marine mammals in other parts of the world, the photographs alone cannot prove this. Of course, that's not to say it isn't a shark bite: merely that the photos can't prove it, hence it being a shame the animal was not recovered for further scrutiny. As folks based at the Institute of Zoology (IoZ) here can attest, very similar large excisions - looking suspiciously like shark bites - have been regularly noted on stranded marine mammals along the UK's North Sea coasts in the past 2 years, each case becoming a source of considerable media hyperventilation about 'killer' sharks. Closer inspection, however, showed that each case was actually a result of death through anthropogenic sources (fishing net entanglements, deliberate mutilation etc) followed by some heavy-duty scavenging from seabirds on gaseous exposed parts of the carcass at the surface (typically the belly), various marine critters nibbling on it and subsequently terrestrial scavengers on the beach. Of all the stranded marine mammals around the UK I've seen photographed over the past 10 years displaying unexplained injuries, only one - a juvenile dolphin discovered near Land's End a few years ago - had injuries unambiguously caused by a shark (to the dorsal part of the tail stock, apparently inflicted by a fairly small shortfin mako). However, last year a video sequence, taken by mobile phone camera off the Scottish Highlands and thankfully not released to the media, clearly showed a lamnid shark attacking a seal at the surface in a prolonged bout that seemed to end with the shark making active approach and contact with the photographer's small boat. It reminded me of my experiences working on the Farallones in equally small craft! Various people have analysed the footage across the globe, and it's a 50-50 split as to whether the shark is a shortfin mako or white shark (around 3m TL as best can be established). Whatever the specific identity, the footage did offer the first solid evidence of predation on pinnipeds by sharks in UK waters. With all this in mind, the animal stranded in Norfolk could potentially be a shark victim, but sadly without the carcass, it's impossible to be certain. One difficult aspect when tackling this stuff in the media is emphasising that if a genuine white shark specimen was recorded from UK waters, it would not represent any scientific surprise whatsoever, albeit the tabloids would go beserk. The real enigma - as Clinton alludes to in his note below - is why, given the wide-ranging habits of this species and its occurrence right up into cold(er) northerly latitudes in other parts of the world, C. carcharias has not been definitively recorded - even as a one-off outlier - anywhere north of the Loire river mouth in the eastern North Atlantic. Given that the last Biscay specimen accurately recorded is the 210cm female reported in 1977 by Jean-Claude and his colleagues - and the intensity of fishery and marine monitoring effort capable of ensnaring or otherwise recording a specimen in Biscay, the Western Approaches and around the UK etc - the sheer rarity of this animal northwards of Iberia (or even southern Portugal) is very, very evident. Best wishes Ian ------------------------------------- Ian K. Fergusson Patron, The Shark Trust / Member, IUCN Shark Specialist Group c/o BBC West, BBC Broadcasting House, Whiteladies Road, Bristol BS8 2LR, England, UNITED KINGDOM ian.fergusson@bbc.co.uk bbc.co.uk/weather -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Declan Quigley [mailto:declanquigley@eircom.net] Sent: 07 January 2008 20:32 To: Richard Lord; info@christaylorphoto.co.uk Cc: 'Douglas Herdson'; 'Andy Horton'; Ian Fergusson; 'Jean Claude QUERO'; 'Alessandro De Maddalena'; cduffy@doc.govt.nz Subject: Re: [Elasmo-l] chunk taken out of seal in North Sea, UK Dear Richard et al, Many thanks for your message. Would one expect to find tooth fragments in the wound ? Regards, Declan ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Lord To: info@christaylorphoto.co.uk Cc: 'Douglas Herdson' ; 'Andy Horton' ; 'Ian Fergusson' ; 'Declan Quigley' ; 'Jean Claude QUERO' ; 'Alessandro De Maddalena' ; cduffy@doc.govt.nz Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: FW: [Elasmo-l] chunk taken out of seal in North Sea, UK I understand that evidence is not in hand and caution is required but Clinton Duffy in an email reply received today and George Burgess in Florida and Malcolm Francis in New Zealand have replied that they think the injury to the seal is probably the result of a white bite. -----Original Message----- From: cduffy@doc.govt.nz [mailto:cduffy@doc.govt.nz] Sent: 06 January 2008 19:22 To: fishinfo@guernsey.net Subject: RE: [Elasmo-l] chunk taken out of seal in North Sea, UK Hi Richard, I work on sharks here in New Zealand, and have seen a lot of pinniped and cetacean carcasses predated by white sharks (Carcharodon carcharias), and several whales and a ray that have been killed or attacked by killer whales. I am also very familiar with blue, mako and smooth hammerheads. Based on this experience I have to say that this looks like a classic case of white shark predation to me. As Ken Collins says in the Sun, there is no reason why white sharks shouldn't be found around the UK, temperature is not a barrier to them and they co-occur with all of the species you list below here in NZ. Regards Clinton Clinton Duffy Marine Conservation Unit Department of Conservation Private Bag 68908 Newton Auckland 1145 New Zealand Ph: ++ 64 9 307-9279 Fax: ++ 64 9 377-2919 DDI: ++ 64 9 307-4810 Mob: ++ 64 27 262-0383 -----Original Message----- From: George H. Burgess [mailto:gburgess@flmnh.ufl.edu] Sent: 04 January 2008 16:29 To: Richard Lord Cc: elasmo-l@luc.edu Subject: Re: [Elasmo-l] chunk taken out of seal in North Sea, UK Dear Richard, It appears to be the result of a lamnid shark, most likely a white but possibly a mako. Shark size probably was about 3 meters or so. best wishes- George -- George H. Burgess Director, Florida Program for Shark Research Curator, International Shark Attack File Florida Museum of Natural History University of Florida Dickinson Hall - Museum Road P O Box 117800 Gainesville, FL 32611 gburgess@flmnh.ufl.edu (352) 392-2360 FAX 352-392-7158 http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish Sent: Thu 03/01/2008 21:44 Hi Richard Thanks - those are more useful photos. I guess such a bite could be made by a very large mako, but a great white still seems more likely. Malcolm -- Malcolm Francis Principal Scientist Inshore and Pelagic Fishes National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd Private Bag 14901 Wellington, New Zealand Phone +64 4 386 0377 Fax +64 4 386 0574 Email: m.francis@niwa.co.nz ------------- Best wishes, Richard Richard Lord Guernsey GY1 1BQ Great Britain Tel: 01481 700688 Fax: 01481 700686 Email: fishinfo@guernsey.net http://www.sealordphotography.net -----Original Message----- From: elasmo-l-bounces@luc.edu [mailto:elasmo-l-bounces@luc.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Lord Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2008 1:44 a.m. To: elasmo-l@luc.edu Subject: [Elasmo-l] chunk taken out of seal in North Sea, UK Photographer Chris Taylor who lives in Sheringham, Norfolk, UK (about 52.6 degrees north and 1.3 degrees east) photographed a dead seal washed up on the shore with a 12 to 13 inch diameter bite taken out of it. The Sun newspaper ran a story on the dead seal with Chris' photo. The article can be seen with gory photo at the following URL. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article643371.ece Several shark biologists have already looked at the photo and given their opinion on the species that bit the seal. Chris has also made available additional images of the dead seal. http://www.christaylorphoto.co.uk/seal/IMG_7561.jpg http://www.christaylorphoto.co.uk/seal/IMG_7562.jpg http://www.christaylorphoto.co.uk/seal/IMG_7563.jpg http://www.christaylorphoto.co.uk/seal/IMG_7590.jpg http://www.christaylorphoto.co.uk/seal/IMG_7595.jpg A couple of these photos were taken after seagulls had pecked at the wound. The Swiss Army knife in one of the photos has a length of 3.5 inches. The wound looks similar to pinniped wounds on this page: http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/Doug/shark.html There have been no confirmed reports of great whites north of the Bay of Biscay. Other large predators that visit the North Sea include the shortfin mako, the blue shark, the smooth hammerhead shark, the Greenland shark, and the orca. Chris Taylor would appreciate expert opinion on the identity of the perpetrator of this seal wound. http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. 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